HIV/AIDS Denialism… What will they deny next?

I’ve only recently started to hear about this brand of conspiracy nutting. Apparently for several years now, some folks have been vocally and passionately denying that HIV causes AIDS. It is based primarily on the opinions of the Berkeley virologist Peter Duesberg. They believe pharmaceutical companies are promoting the HIV/AIDS relationship so they can sell more drugs. And some deniers think it is even the drugs that are killing people (particularly AZT)…

Richard Wilson has written about this topic in the larger context of “scepticism” versus “dogmatism” arguing (more or less) that this sort of denialism (like it’s brother, conspiracy theorizing) is a faith-based and dogma-driven business. I know it always makes me a little nuts when I’m in a conversation with someone (about 9/11 for example) and they accuse me of being a “sheep,” “intellectually lazy,” or “sold by the government.” They brandish the moniker “sceptic” as if it meant “someone who takes a view in opposition to the majority.” It doesn’t.

A sceptic looks at the evidence, weighs it, considers it — and he/she uses his/her brain to come up with the best explanation. Being a narrow-minded contrarian does not make you a sceptic…

As RIchard writes:

Bogus scepticism does not centre on an impartial search for the truth, but on a no-holds-barred defence of a preconceived ideological position. The bogus sceptic is thus, in reality, a disguised dogmatist, made all the more dangerous for his success in appropriating the mantle of the unbiased and open-minded inquirer.

The fact is, sometimes “the masses” are right, sometimes they are not. As rational thinkers (which I’m sure everyone who reads this blog is), our job is to find the “truth” no matter if that lady is hiding in the middle of the crowd…

P.S. For reasons why scientists are convinced that HIV causes AIDS, check out this article.

64 Responses

  1. Thanks for the mention, Tyson… (And prepare to be mauled by the crazies!)

  2. did anyone alert Jenny McCarthy? this seems relative to her interests.

  3. Now check out this site for a rebuttal (if you want a balanced opinion) : http://www.healtoronto.com/nih/

  4. bob, thanks for the link. In your opinion, if HIV/AIDS are unrelated, why would the scientific community’s predominate view continue to be that it is?

  5. The HEAL rebuttal document of NIAID/NIH’s “The Evidence That HIV Causes AIDS” states it is based primary on the work of Papadopulos-Eleopulos et al. (The “Perth Group”) and Peter Duesberg.

    I would invite you to read their wikipedia entries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleni_Papadopulos-Eleopulos , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Duesberg .

    Duesberg’s claims have been disproven. Papadopulos-Eleopulos only have a Bachelor of Science degree in nuclear physics from the University of Bucharest, and haven’t done any actual medical research.

  6. Thanks Tyson, Good question! Short answer is the greed, wealth, and propaganda power of big pharma and most of the scientific community is in their pay. Fact is if you go to a later niaid factsheet :http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/howhiv.htm fourth para down begins:Most scientists THINK that hiv causes aids!!! If they THINK then they don’t KNOW. On the other hand if you go here :http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/whistleblowers.htm You will find a list of renowned scientists with impeccable credentials who don’t think, they KNOW HIV DOESN’T CAUSE aids. peace be with you bob.

  7. Hi Roger,Can I invite you (in the interests of a balanced opinion, of course)to read some of what P Duesberg and The Perth Group, as well as many other renowned scientists, have to say for themselves rather than take a third party’s point of view?
    Meanwhile could you provide me with a link or reference to where P Duesbergs papers have been disproved or rebutted because I don’t know of any such rebuttal. Thank you, peace and truth be with you bob.
    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

    http://www.duesberg.com/papers/index.html

  8. Nice try on bashing the AIDS Dissidents/Rethinkers.
    I’m going to guess that if any of you have truly read any of the dissident information (books and websites) and still don’t get it, then it may be a religion to you and nothing I can say can change your mind. It may be that the owner of this blog is getting paid to further someones agenda. Personally, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, and I don’t think this was a conspiracy. I think this was capitalism, politics, and power hungry maniacs at their very worst (actually evil and ungodly). Unless you or a loved one has AIDS, you probably will not try to educate yourself much about it. Most people could care less about this gay man and black person disease. I don’t have to defend the truth, it does very well on its own and has stood the test of time. The truth will truly set you free.
    http://www.myspace.com/rethinkaids

  9. …”Meanwhile could you provide me with a link or reference to where P Duesbergs papers have been disproved or rebutted because I don’t know of any such rebuttal. “…
    They cannot provide that Bob, it does not exist. Only convoluted arguments that have no logic. If I can make sense of nonsense, does that make me smart?
    Take care,
    Joe

  10. Guys,
    Looking back at my posts, I realize I may have wrongly pointed at the owner of this blog as getting paid to bash AIDS rethinkers. Although this does exist, I don’t know that this blog owner is a conduit for that type of information and I apologize for insinuating that. As for my bold remarks, I will make no apologies because I know the truth when I see it.
    Thanks,
    Joe

  11. Joe, I am of the “fantastic claims require fantastic evidence” school of thought…

    I have just started to learn about this topic, but as an outsider, i can say that the medical community is overwhelmingly dismissive of these claims. Very few HIV/AIDS deniers seem to be medical researchers and scientists… It seems to me that if such a “conspiracy” was going on by “Big Pharma” there would be much more in the way of evidence… Why are so many deniers non-scientists? These are honest questions.

  12. Tyson. You rightfully say “I am of the “fantastic claims require fantastic evidence” school of thought”.

    It is unfortunate that the fantastic claim that HIV causes immune suppression was not held to that same level of requirement before it was believed hook, line, and sinker by 99% of the world.

    I would not consider any of this to be the result of “conspiracy”, but only the result of mankinds ongoing dilemma of dealing with human sexuality, the biblical texts refuting homosexuality, societal guilt and backlash after the sex fest of the 60’s and 70’s, and mankinds neverending belief that the sky is falling and we are all gonna die in the “attack of the killer germs” germaphobia that is still rampant, ei; sars, bird flu, epidemic flu, and other non-existent threats, that have no bearing on those who are well fed, clean and sober, and less stressed.

    But leave it to the vivid imaginations of mankind to come up with a sexual killer boogeyman like the belief that hiv is causing aids in the sexually perverse gays and blacks!

    And lets just quietly ignore the internal death wish of drug abusing gays who were disowned by their families, and further ignore the plight of the inner city drug abusing blacks, and further ignore the poverty, malnutrition, and intense hopelessness and depression that such causes in the third world. After all, it is much easier to blame all illness in these groups on a sex bug and just throw pills at it.

  13. By the way, Tyson, the entire original not so “fantastic evidence” that created the “hiv, the virus that causes aids” belief, was affirmed in 1984 by Dr. Robert Gallo, who’s sole “fantastic evidence” was that he found “rt activity” in 36 out of 72 aids patients.

    At that time, it was believed by the early retrovirologists that rt activity was solely found when retroviruses were present. Such a claim was later disproven. It was also believed that the antibodies that are used for the hiv tests were exclusive to Gallo’s finding. It was also later found that the antibodies were anything but exclusive, but too little, too late. And the “science” of hiv has yet to correct itself. The hiv/aids bandwagon was already rolling down the road with billions of $$$ thrown at it, and lots of egos and livelihoods, and all of the works of the “do-gooders” at stake, along with all the bucks involved. Furthermore, the popular belief in the hiv boogeyman was at 100 percent in the masses at that time, though it is decreasing though very very slowly.

    Obviously, this insanity will not turn around in any of our lifetimes, but perhaps our childrens children have a chance of getting beyond this current generation’s insanity. Or at least I sincerely hope so.

  14. Tyson, you also asked: Why are so many deniers non-scientists? These are honest questions.

    That is an honest question. But there are many, as you call “deniers”, that are in medicine and science.

    Doctors however, are held to “standard of treatment”, that if they do not follow, they can lose their license to practice.

    Scientists are all taking out of the same till. Tony Fauci and gang have run the NIH funds for hiv/aids and they DO NOT fund anything that might disprove them.

    It is commonly known that to go against the central bureaucracy, one will get “DUESBERGED” and have their funds refused. In the last two years, several dissidents have had their university standing attacked and had their deans bombarded by letters from paid hiv researchers to dismiss these “deniers”. Just a few of these in the last 2 years are Harvey Bialy, Rebecca Culshaw, Andrew Maniotis, Darin Brown, and others.

    It is not yet easy for anyone to go against the orthodoxy on this subject. Those who speak out are promptly attacked. And these people have a lot to lose by speaking out against the hiv dogma.

    That is why there are so few who do speak out against it. The only ones who can safely speak out are the ones who are totally outside the system, and not relying on it to make their livings.

  15. Michael, I appreciate you taking the time to respond but these accusations hardly seem to be “fantastic evidence.” I mean, if HIV is really not the cause of AIDS it is not only pulitzer-worthy news, but nobel-winning insight. If we are really spending billions of dollars per year on something that does not exist, if the US and many other countries are pouring hundreds of thousands of labor-hours per year on a non-existent medical problem, and they are doing so just because it makes them “feel better”… well, that is such an incredible story there seems to me no way that it should take “generations” to come out…

    Your arguments sound just so much like the anti-evolution arguments I hear (as exemplified in Ben Stein’s “Expelled”). And it is just not my experience of scientists. They are hardly ever unified, they are always looking for ways to distinguish themselves and find fault in other scientists work… It is a heavily competitive field with limited funding… What you describe simply seems like fantasy to me… and that’s why I am asking for “fantastic evidence”… Perhaps you could share the stories of the folks who you say were attacked?

  16. And by the way, Tyson, calling those who disagree that HIV is the cause of immune suppression as “denialists”, and “conspiracy nutting” shows you to have preconceived beliefs that these people who disagree that hiv is the cause of aids are and must be simply mad and absolutely wrong.

    As such, your post is “slanted” right from the word “go”.

    Your post so far, clearly shows that your own preconceived opinion on this matter was unfortunately not coming from any unbiased point of open mindedness nor full research of the issues either!

    It is more appropriate to approach a subject that you are not fully educated on from a place of neutrality.

    Would it be too difficult for you to say “I don’t know, but I would like to find out”?

    I would hope not.

    For most people, it seems it is too difficult for their own ego to admit that they “do not know” something, and they simply defer to popular consensus and authority of those whose livings, positions, and social standing rely on the popular belief, such as Mr. Richard Wilson has seemingly done.

  17. I hear you.

    But I would also like to say that “deferring” to authority, when that authority has proven to be correct in the past, and ensuring that the authority is speaking on topics the authority is authoritative about, is not the same as as buying-in to a “popular belief.”

    I honestly don’t know much on this topic, but I am honestly waiting for the evidence to support such seemingly extraordinary claims…

  18. Richard, the entire history of humanity is littered with “incredible stories”.

    For the entire history of mankind, millions upon millions have marched to their deaths following leaders who lacked integrity. This is nothing new.

    How and why would you possibly think our own generation would be immune to such? Are we of this generation not also human? Are we too enlightened to fall for a mistaken belief?

    I only have a few moments to spare right now, but I myself was sent an email from Dr. John P Moore, a prominent hiv researcher, who was a founder of the “AIDStruth” website, and who by the way, recently got 500,000 from Bristol Myer as well as gets his funding from the nih.

    I will be glad to forward you his email. His words to me were, and I quote: “This is a WAR, and there are no rules. We will crush you (denialists) one at a time, utterly and completely”. He and several other prominent aids researchers proceeded to hound the universities of the researchers named above.

    Google “JP Moore” and “declaration of war” to find it posted on the dissident site “You bet your life”.

    If you have an email address, I will be glad to share with you the emails wherein the attacks on these people and their universities are discussed, and the email addresses of the emails of those who I mentioned above, wherein you will clearly find them to have been attacked and hounded from their university positions for their positions on hiv as the cause of aids. I am sure they would be happy to speak out about it.

    You can research Professor Bauers blog: hivskeptic, or rethinkingaids.org, or virusmyth, YBYL, New Aids review, aids myth exposed, and a slew of other current sites for the real life stories of many of those involved.

    I really do have to get my own butt off to work at the moment to make my own living, but I will get back to you later.

    Meanwhile, I am sure you have more than enough to get your head fully spun by researching some of this on your own, and without me spoonfeeding you select bits and pieces.

  19. i see that there some replies there to my posts now but i have not had time to read them yet. I’m not ignoring you, just no time to respond yet.
    Joe

  20. “But I would also like to say that “deferring” to authority, when that authority has proven to be correct in the past, and ensuring that the authority is speaking on topics the authority is authoritative about”

    Are you referring to how sars and bird flu has wiped out most of the human race? Or are you referring to the “war on cancer” wherein the viruses that caused cancer were going to be discovered?

    What the heck are you talking about “proven to be correct in the past”? The entire war on cancer was a total failure, and was disbanded just before the hiv belief entered. 99% of the original hiv researchers came from the failed war on cancer! They are still running the show.

    We do not have toxicologists or psychologists running our NIH. If we did, we would find the toxic or psychological causes of these illnesses. The virologists have controlled the NIH for 40 years. In order to keep their funding and keep their control, they must have viruses, and they must be very deadly and very scary! He who gets the funding controls the agenda. $250 billion for hiv has kept the original cancer virologists in control, yet no cure, no vaccine, no lives saved, and hundreds of thousands died from the effects of the aids treatments, which themselves were derived from cancer treatments.

    The exact years of the highest deaths said to be due to hiv are the EXACT years that the chemotherapy treatment AZT (originally designed for cancer treatment but shelved as too toxic and caused immune suppression itself) was used in high doses. The leading cause of death in American hiv positives since AZT was cut back by 2/3 in the combo treatments, or shelved in favor of protease inhibitors that prevent cells from regenerating has been liver failure in those taking the current drugs, followed by kidney and heart failure. These are not due to any virus. These are classic symptoms of drug toxicities. This is well proven in scientific literature.

    If you are captaining the ship of such a monumental disaster as this, would you be willing to say: “oops, we screwed up, sorry about that”! or would you avoid the issue like the plague and keep praying that hiv was truly the culprit instead of your own ignorance?

    Love to talk about it more, but I gotta get to work!

    I

  21. bob: I have only skimed the NIAID/NIH, and HEAL documents because most of the content of the arguments require knowledge of the field and I’m not a virologist. Instead I have to put trust in the experts of the field, and I have to say Duesberg et al have the case against them. But I’m prepared to study the subject futher, just for you bob.

    While I’m doing that would you accept to read the criticism against Duesberg? Your claim that you’re unaware of it shows you didn’t even look at my the wikipedia link. Start of by actualy reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Duesberg , and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis . To make it even easier, here’s a direct link to one of the referenses: http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/cohen/cohen.dtl .

    If you do your research I’ll do mine.

    Also, don’t play word games, please.. Scientists of course not just think this or that, they do research. That is what is implied by saying “Most scientists think..”

    joe: There is another possibility for “not get it”. It may be false. If something is false you’ll not catch me beliving it to be true.

    Why do you think one have to be the victim or relative to educate oneself about AIDS? I have trouble understanding why this must be a necessary condition. Next, are you saying AIDS only affect homosexual and black persons?? This is clearly false, and I’m appaled by the statement.

    The truth have stood the test of time? If you ignore the criticism and select facts after opinion, sure. It actualy occure to me that Duesberg’s claims of the causes of AIDS falls tightly in line with christian doctrine. Why would I not assume *you* are the one taking a faith based position, both in the agrumental and religious sense?

  22. Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.Dr.RichardP.FeynmanDr. Richard P. Feynman, American physicist

  23. Sorry Roger that is no play on words they don’t KNOW. If any one scientist had come forward in the last 25 years and announced they had found out how hiv causes aids we would all know about it as they would be in line for a nobel etc. No such person has come forward! This from Kary Mullis:”If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document.” (Sunday Times (London) 28 nov. 1993)
    25 years and billions of $$s the best evidence would appear to be that niaid document!
    The Science magazine that you link to is not a peer reviewed paper. More can be found here : http://www.healtoronto.com/durban/crowe.html
    I looked through the pdf about koch’s postulates again I quote “some researchers THINK that recent evidence suggests the virus does pass this test. That’s opinion, not science. Anyway, as a layman, no one can convince me that
    Idiopathic CD4 T Lymphocytopenia (aids without hiv) is compatible with koch’s first postulate : The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but not in healthy organisms.
    Roger can I recommend this link :http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/censorship.htm
    Investigative journalists and so not too scientific. Plenty of links to articles and interviews covering most of the many facets to the whole issue and I’m sure you’ll find something of interest, because at the end of the day if you only focus on the criticism you are only getting half the picture and a distorted one at that.
    Personally I have found that just about everything that these scientists and journalists have to say is understandable, makes sense and all their predictions have come true. Not so the likes of niaid which is more of a magical mystery tour if you ask me.
    I wish you well bob

  24. Tyson,
    I will have to say that Michael has replied to you with a wealth of information that dwarfs any reply I could have sent you. I have nothing more to add unless you have a specific question for me.

    Roger,
    from your post below, here is my answer.
    “joe: There is another possibility for “not get it”. It may be false. If something is false you’ll not catch me beliving it to be true.

    That makes a lot of sense, If something is false and i know it is false, I’ll not believe it either.
    **********************

    Why do you think one have to be the victim or relative to educate oneself about AIDS? I have trouble understanding why this must be a necessary condition.

    Roger, My wife was diagnosed back in 1996 and we listened to the doctor tell us that this would eventually kill my wife. We learned all about it and one thing we knew was these drugs were the only thing that could help her. No other alternatives were available. Only the drugs. With the exception of learning all of the information given to us by the doctors, I will have to say that I questioned nothing they said after I was shot down from my question on “Can we get a second opinion?”
    Fast forward to 2007 and I’m looking for a video on a Google search. I ran across a documentary named “The Other Side of Aids” by accident. I was not looking for this information but I could not stop watching it. I told my wife about it and we found so much information each and every day. We tried to disprove this information over and over again but could not. I’m not a scientist or a doctor, but i am a thinker and a good judge of character. Everybody in the Aids rethinker movement went out of their way to help us, without any type of monetary gain. They did not help us because they wanted to harm us. They truly cared about what we were going thru. So in a round about way, I’m saying that all of this information ids very time consuming and I don’t know too many people that have that much time, even if they are driven to find the truth under every rock. My own parents don’t even take the time to learn this information on their own. They are mostly spoonfed the information on any topic. Two folks that I know of that have had no direct relation to anybody with AIDS but relly dug in are my kids science and health teacher and a investigator named Clark Baker who wrote a great blog article called “Gallo’s Egg” You can find it here http://exlibhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/07/gallos-egg.html
    It’s not nesessary to be a relative, only that is usually the reason someone will spend the time investigating.
    *********************************************************

    Next, are you saying AIDS only affect homosexual and black persons?? This is clearly false, and I’m appaled by the statement.

    Ok, don’t get too appalled. The context I wrote this was
    “Unless you or a loved one has AIDS, you probably will not try to educate yourself much about it. Most people could care less about this gay man and black person disease.”
    I did not say this in a derrogatory way. I’m not saying that I could care less. It is the perception that white middle class has of AIDS. It does not affect them. It s the gays and the blacks that it affects, not us so I will not learn learn anything more about this disease than what the CDC and the NIH says.It is caused by a virus and thats all I know. They must be right because they are our government. ……And by the way, I am whit and middle class and I do know what my peers think for the most part.

    The truth have stood the test of time? If you ignore the criticism and select facts after opinion, sure. It actualy occure to me that Duesberg’s claims of the causes of AIDS falls tightly in line with christian doctrine. Why would I not assume *you* are the one taking a faith based position, both in the agrumental and religious sense?”

    Roger,
    Faith is not such a bad thing. I never said it was, Having blind faith in somthing that can easily be disputed but has been silenced in the world we live in by controlling the media, medical, pharma, is bad. This type of blind faith could be propagated by the military onganizations of the CDC and the NIH.

    Yes Roger, I am a Christian, and I proudly BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of God. You can bash me all day on that one but this is not the forum for religion.

  25. please excuse the lack of a spell checker in the above post. I was trying to get this done before bed🙂

  26. Roger,
    BTW, my wife is much healthier today after getting off the poisons prescribed to her after being off of them after 1.5 years. I guess you would know that if you went to our myspace page, shes not lying about it. AZT the cancer chemotherapy that was shelved in 1964 but was resurrected in 87 I think. the only reason she is alive today is because the dose of AZT was lowered right before my wife was diagnosed. All AZT does is kill cells period. Its like Round Up for your body. Poison. Take that for two weeks full strength!

  27. Duesberg and Michael’s comments are so logical and well thought out.
    I think the most damning statistic is that AIDS is said to be a common heterosexual disease in Africa and yet decades later heterosexual AIDS is insignificant in the USA. I have lived in areas where there is a lot of unprotected heterosexual sex and non drug using heteros are not getting AIDS.
    The HIV/AIDs theory does not make sense and the statistics prove it.

  28. Roger,
    You can find more bad things about Peter Duesberg on the internet than you can find good. You should contact other dissadents and see how passionate we all are about this. We all care because we don’t want anybody to die without having the other side of the story that we did not have back in 1996. It is extremely personal and its because we care about human beings.

  29. This topic is truly fascinating. Not only for the “dispute” itself, but for the underpinnings, the stories, and the personalities behind it.

    Joe, I hope your wife continues to do well. I hope this is not insensitive to ask, but what will you do if her health starts to decline — will you consider drug therapies again? I understand that the AZT is not used as in the past.

    What I am confused about is, in everyone’s opinion, what is the cause of AIDS? Or are you saying AIDS does not exist? After reading much of the literature you have pointed us to, I am finding it difficult to understand what the overall message is (except that HIV is not the cause of AIDS)?

    Further info would be much appreciated!

  30. Sorry Roger no play on words intended, if any scientist in the last 25 years had discovered how hiv causes aids we would all know about it as they would be up for a nobel prize etc. No such person has ever come forward. This from Kary Mullis :”If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document.” (Sunday Times (London) 28 nov. 1993) I repeat “they don’t KNOW”
    Btw that science magazine that you link to is not peer reviewed more here :http://www.healtoronto.com/durban/crowe.html
    I looked through the pdf document on koch’s postulates first paragraph Btw that science magazine that you link to is not peer reviewed more here :http://www.healtoronto.com/durban/crowe.html
    I looked through the pdf document on koch’s postulates first paragraph reads:But some researchers THINK recent evidence suggests the virus does pass this test! Anyway no one can tell me that idiopathic cd4 lymphocytopenia (aids without hiv) is compatible with the first of koch’s postulates namely :The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but not in healthy organisms.
    Finally I hope you have managed to have a look at P Duesbergs site because if you are only focusing on the critics obviously you are not getting a balanced view. Personally I have found that everything they say makes sense, is intelligible and all their predictions have come true. Not so the niaid documents etc
    I wish you well bob

  31. Tyson, you asked “What is the cause of AIDS”.

    To delve into that, you must first of all define “AIDS”.

    First of all, AIDS is not a disease. It is a definition. Therefore No-one dies or has ever died of AIDS. They die of very certain causes such as pneumonia or liver failure.

    Many death certificates of those diagnosed as hiv positive often simply said: “Complications of aids”, which usually meant liver or heart or kidney failure due to the aids drugs.

    The CDC definition for the most part is: an hiv positive antibody test and any one of 30 common illnesses OR an hiv positive test and low CD4 cell count.

    So first of all, an hiv positive test is “usually” but not always required. However, have a look at the 70 factors that are known and proven to often cause hiv tests to blow off as false positives, and then ask yourself if the hiv tests are really 99.9% accurate, as they are advertised and promoted to be:

    See the following link for the list of factors that we know can cause hiv tests to be wrong: http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/cjtestfp.htm

    But strangely enough, the CDC also issued in 1999, a notice to doctors of how to diagnose someone as hiv positive that has tested negative on hiv tests, provided they were in “high risk” groups, such as drug abusers or homosexuals.

    As for the classical CDC definition, for instance, a woman who tested positive on the antibody tests and has cervical cancer or pneumonia or candida yeast infection is said to have “full blown” aids. A woman who tested negative and has cervical cancer or pneumonia or candida yeast infection simply has cervical cancer or pneumonia or yeast infection.

    Once diagnosed as “AIDS”, a person keeps that diagnosis for life. AIDS diagnoses are never revoked as “in remission”.

    Also, someone who tested positive and has low cd4 count is said to have aids. Someone who tested negative simply has low cd4 counts.

    But strangely enough, there are many perfectly healthy hiv negative people who by nature have very low cd4 counts, including athletes.

    A recent study by Rodriguez et al presented that low cd4 counts only have any bearing on actual illness in about 6% of actually ill hiv positives. Obviously, cd4 counts more often than not have little to nothing to do with overall health.

    But I think that for general purposes, one could define AIDS as hiv positive and ill with any one of many diseases, and not regaining their health.

    So you ask, what causes AIDS, as if there is a single, one-cause fits all reason why some people get ill and fail to regain health.

    Tyson, there are many reasons why people get ill and fail to recover. Stress, malnutrition, depression, giving up on life, poor nutrition, self abuse by drugs, alcohol, loneliness, losing ones mate, etc, etc, etc.

    And many of those who are blowing off the hiv tests as positive fit quite neatly into these categories.

    The test diagnosis itself can create extreme stress and hopelessness. The power of the mind and emotions on ones health are absolutely and irrefutably major influencers of health and well being.

    Gays suffered extreme stress when they were disowned by their families for being gay. Many of them sought refuge and escape from their emotional traumas via drugs, alcohol, sex addiction, etc. Sex addiction often leads to repeated std exposures, followed by intensive use of antibiotics. Antibiotics overuse often leads to major systemic yeast infections.

    One of the biggest emotional traumas was the neverending panic that spread thru the gay community of aids, and the intense stress caused by the diagnosis of hiv itself.

    Stress is proven to cause ones thymus gland to shut down. Immature cd4 cells are created in the bone marrow and are then carried to the thymus gland where they mature to become usable and then are released into the body.

    When the neverending stress of an hiv positive diagnosis is given to some people, their thymus gland simply shuts down from the stress and no longer creates usable cd4 t cells. This further contributes to immune system problems and creates the “low cd4 counts” that the orthodoxy then uses to declare someone as having “aids”.

    And just for a moment, put yourself in the plight of a 30 year old black woman living in a one room shack in the ghettos of Africa, with no job, no money, no future, surviving on a small ration of not very nutricious corn meal, with 5 screaming malaria ridden infants playing in the sewer that runs beside your shack, and drinking contaminated water.

    Does this sound to you like a recipe for good health and well being? Or does it sound like sickness and death waiting to happen? There are hundreds of thousands living in this way in many parts of Africa.

    So why do many people in the socially marginalized groups of inner city blacks, gays, and poverty stricken of the 3rd world get sick and die? Surely, you can figure this out for yourself, if you just think about it for a bit.

  32. Tyson, you also said: “I understand that the AZT is not used as in the past.”

    AZT has simply been renamed as “retrovir” and as “zidovudine”. Many of those taking it do not even know that they are taking AZT. It is still in some of the cocktails, notably combivir and trizivir, and is also often still prescribed in combination with other drugs as well. The dosage given to patients has dropped, however, the use of it will still poison the body, though much slower than when it was given in high dosages from 87 to 95.

    Much of the 3rd world is still given AZT when they are given an hiv poz diagnosis.

  33. Big pharma are magicians in the art of creating mountains out of molecules and confusing us. In the case of hiv aids there have been so many lies told over 25 years that to uncover the truth is like peeling layers off an onion

    In my opinion the causes of aids are quite simple.If you take drugs and drink etc and or share loads of antibodies with loads of partners etc and or don’t eat properly don’t sleep properly etc your immune system will suffer. After all, you don’t have to be a car mechanic to know that if you don’t put oil in your engine it will seize up!
    For African aids try malnutrition, lack of clean water and sewerage, not to mention malaria etc. They suffer from the disease of poverty! But don’t take my word for it,it’s all in

    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

    They’ve got immunlogists, pathologists,molecular biologists bio-phycists,investigative journalists, something to please everyone. I beg you go there and just have a look at any article or interview that takes your fancy and see if it makes sense! See if it checks out.Go on I dare you, then go back to niaid etc and see if they make sense?
    Or check out “Gallo’s Egg” as mentioned earlier in a post by Joe, a riveting read and a good overview.
    I believe everybody has the right to know that these scientists exist and their points of view and the fact that we had never heard of them before and their perfectly valid and reasonable questions etc is suggestive, if not evidence of a cover up and censorship!

    The truth shall set you free.
    If you want the truth you have to go see what P Deusberg et al have to say for themselves. After all, if I want to know about Tyson, I won’t ask Joe or Michael what they think about Tyson , I will ask Tyson! It’s only fair.

    Finally I write this with love, I think it was C Farber that said the truth has an energy of it’s own, and that’s what I want to share with you, thing is if you don’t read any of P Duesberg etc you can never say that you know the truth!

    May the truth be with you bob.

  34. So when Joe says his wife was “diagnosed” does he mean HIV positive? Or does he mean with AIDS?

  35. Tyson,
    Aids due to a below 2oo cd4 count. No Aids defining symptoms until the drugs.

  36. Tyson,
    I will add more later tonight. I am out on the road now.
    joe

  37. These people just lie and hope that no one is around that knows that they’re lying e.g. AZT being “given in high dosages from 87 to 95.” The dose was lowered in January 1990, the label change information is on the FDA website. This lie is necessary in order to try and explain why the death rate plummeted after the introduction of triple combination therapy in 96. Given that HIV deniers (including Duesberg) argue that antiretrovirals cause AIDS, they have a tough time explaining why there is a massive decrease in mortality when three antiretrovirals are compared to two in randomized clinical trials – in other words, three of the drugs they argue causes AIDS have significantly larger benefit in reducing AIDS and death than two of the drugs they argue cause AIDS. They have no explanation for why this is beyond claiming high dose AZT killed people and that the dose wasn’t lowered until 1995.

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7340/757

    AZT was shelved in the 60s because it had no activity against cancer cells, it certainly didn’t kill cells as Joe claims. This is the direct word of the man who first synthesized it (note also that it had no effect on DNA synthesis, yet Duesberg and his acolytes continue to call it a “DNA chain terminator”

    “Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:15:04 -0700
    From: “Richard Beltz”
    X-Accept-Language: en
    To: crowed
    Subject: AZT and AIDS

    Dear President Crowe:

    I synthesized AZT in my laboratory as a NIH Senior Research Fellow (National Cancer Institute) in the autumn of 1961. The AZT was among a group of four thymidine analogs that I prepared at that time. AZT proved to be the most biologically active of these compounds. My biological tests showed (1) AZT inhibited the growth of E. coli and Salmonella potsdam at very low concentrations, and (2) cultures of E coli put on agar plates containing AZT showed AZT-resistant clones after a few days of incubation. Subcultures of these clones were completely resistant to growth inhibition by AZT. Further work showed that AZT had no effect on the DNA synthesis of T2 bacteriophage propagated in E. coli cultures. Finally, I prepared 1 gram of crystalline AZT and sent it to my friend Dr. Alan Sartorelli, Professor of Pharmacology at Yale University, for testing against animal cancers. It proved to be completely inactive in all of the test systems he employed. In my laboratory I found AZT incapable of inhibiting the growth of Jensen sarcoma cells in vitro at very high concentrations. Thus, AZT showed no activity as a potential anticancer drug at that time. What I have written here summarizes my work with AZT. I did many other experiments within the framework of these findings, but it consisted of filling in the details.

    Now let me say that I am aware of the existence of certain quotes attributed to me on the Internet, such as the one you mentioned in your letter. Such quotes are completely untrue! Never at any time did I study the potential of AZT to cause cancer, nor did I investigate the toxicity of AZT in animals or humans. At that time I was interested in AZT as a potential anticancer drug. When AZT proved to be inactive in the experimental tumor systems that I and Sartorelli tested it against, I discontinued my work on AZT. It seemed possible to me, then, that AZT was a cure looking for a disease, but what disease? [AIDS didn’t emerge until around 1980, as you know.]

    I regret very much being wrongly quoted on the Internet in regard to AZT. I am sorry if such quotes have led to incorrect conclusions about AZT, which we must admit has at least some limited value as an anti-AIDS drug, especially for preventing newborn children from AIDS-infected mothers from acquiring the disease.

    Sincerely yours,

    Richard E. Beltz, Ph.D.
    Professor of Biochemistry
    School of Medicine
    Loma Linda University,
    Loma Linda, CA 92350″

    AZT was screened for anti-HIV activity because it had shown antiretroviral effects in murine studies in the 70s, the full paper from 1974 is online:

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=4531031

  38. This is the way the world ends: not with a bang, but a whimper.ThomasStearnsEliotThomas Stearns Eliot, aka T. S. Eliot

  39. Of course if you want a balanced opinion about azt
    and something that is comprehensible to boot,then go here:
    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index/azt.htm
    The truth shall set you free.

  40. Dear BP,

    “It was often difficult to distinguish adverse events possibly associated with zidovudine [AZT] administration from the underlying signs of HIV disease”

    – Physician’s Desk Reference, 1994

  41. Tyson:
    If you have just started reading about HIV/AIDS, and you are genuinely curious about the substantive issues that skeptics about HIV/AIDS raise, please have a look at my article:

    Questioning HIV/AIDS: Morally Reprehensible
    or Scientifically Warranted? at http://www.jpands.org/jpands1204.htm

    which documents the ad hominem attacks by “defendersof the faith” and summarizes some of the points that skeptics make against the orthodox view.

  42. Tyson Koska, on September 25th, 2008 at 7:27 am Said:
    “This topic is truly fascinating. Not only for the “dispute” itself, but for the underpinnings, the stories, and the personalities behind it.

    Joe, I hope your wife continues to do well. I hope this is not insensitive to ask, but what will you do if her health starts to decline — will you consider drug therapies again? I understand that the AZT is not used as in the past.

    What I am confused about is, in everyone’s opinion, what is the cause of AIDS? Or are you saying AIDS does not exist? After reading much of the literature you have pointed us to, I am finding it difficult to understand what the overall message is (except that HIV is not the cause of AIDS)?

    Further info would be much appreciated!”

    Tyson,
    She will never go back to the pharma drugs. 2007 was an enlightining year for both of us. We will never go back to just taking a doctors word for our health ever again. Not to say we don’t have a family doctor, we have one of the very best docs 4 minutes from our house. He has been extremely helpful to us. He is a medical doctor and a naturapathic doctor. My wife and daughter also see a Chinese medicine doctor that does acupuncture. They swear by her. My wife also has a chiropractor that has helped her very much. She has in a sense built her own team of doctors. For the most part every drug we use is natural. We also use essential oils (oils derived from the essence of plants and herbs) some are single oils and some are blends. I have one that I take when I feel a sore throat or cold sore coming on and it takes it away so quickly every time. we get them from http://www.anandaapothecary.com/

    Also did you know that high doses of Vitimin C will cure pneumonia and mono? My wife and daughter respectively have been cured from these ailment when nothing else would work. Its not cheap, about $70 for an intravenous drip bag at our local doctor. But it works great and insurance does not cover.

    I do know what I’m trying to say about AIDS and it is this: AIDS does exist and it is a breakdown of the immune system due to hard living and zero or low nutrition. It is not a disease, it is a condition. It has been around a lot longer than Robert Gallo. My goal is to tell people that in my opinion, there is another option for you if you are diagnosed with hiv/aids. Nobody ever told us that hiv might not exist. They never told us the tests are flawed. If they did they did not do it loud or bold enough. I would hate to think that political correctness is the reason. I think you will notice that the dissidents all have a mission and it is to be a helper to their fellow man. I think we live in a very dark time in the medical world and food too.
    I’m not recruiting for an anti AIDS club. You can believe that hiv = aids all day long. I don’t care! Actually i do care. I want to be that person that should have came to my wife and I back in 1996 and told us his crazy story on how the doctors and scientists are wrong.

    Richard E. Beltz, Ph.D. Professor of Biochemistry. Are you here on this tiny little blog worried about people talking about AIDS? I will say that the AZT and the 3tc and the protease inhibitor always kept my wife with an extreme pale looking face and clear complexion. But she does have have her color back now but it did a number on her digestive tract. I don’t recommend it🙂

    Tyson,
    Any other questions? It is my mission to talk about this. The experts will point their finger at me and say I’m a fool. I will not debate these guys with all of their medical language. I don’t understand their language and they know that. I People like you need to weigh what they are saying to what i’m saying. See who makes the most sense.

    Good night!
    Joe

  43. Henry,
    Thanks for stopping by! We do appreciate you my friend and hope to meet you someday.
    Joe

  44. Just see “hiv fact or fraud” and see the movie that lays out Duesbergs arguments for free.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8142733917997460212

    Its mycoplasma incognitus thats the real microbe to worry about, google it, http://www.projectdaylily.com

  45. Tyson,
    Here is another link to virusmyth about azt if it has not already been posted.

    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index/azt.htm

    Scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the label for a bottle of AZT that a pharmacist gets to see.

    Just so you know, virusmyth is not the only source for information out there but it is probably the biggest and is very searchable. I’m not sure how it got started.

    Take the tour when you have the time. I skimmed thru it and it looks good. have a nice day,
    Joe

    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/tour/index.htm

  46. Joe, I’m trying to understand. Your wife has been diagnosed as HIV positive, yes? And was displaying or not displaying symptoms of what I have heard called “full blown AIDS”? In any case, she began a traditional treatment back in 1996, but the treatment did not bring her back to full health, she was displaying side-effects from the toxicity of the medicines. Then she stopped taking the drugs last year and since then has been very careful with diet/etc… and she has been treating any ailments with “natural” drugs. She feels great now. Is all of this correct?

    And your view is that the HIV did not cause the AIDS symptoms in the first place but it was the result of hard-living and bad diet? Has her immune symptom recovered—I mean does she still go in for tests? I see above that someone suggests her symptoms may have been caused by mycoplasma incognitus, has she been tested for that?

  47. Tyson,
    Yes my wife was diagnosed hiv+ and full blown aids since her cd4 count was under 200. the cdc at one point determined that a t-cell count of under 200 was considered aids. She was was having lots of medical issues after having my daughter and 2.5 years later having my son. many things that could stress out her immune system. But not wasting, KS, toxoplasmosis, or any of the defining aids illneses. Yes she had many side effects from the drugs but we just thought it was disease progression. She has always been somewhat healthy but now she is practically a health food / raw food expert. She is awesome and has been very instrumental in changing our food habits for the better. We go walking 3 miles every morning if that tells you what kind of shape she is in. Migraines and restless leg syndrome are now a thing of the past!
    Hiv did not cause it. The tests are flawed. Dr Robert Giraldo has a good article on stressors on Virusmyth I think. I’ll post it if i can find it. The dilution ratio is 400 for the serum tested on these tests. If you were to test your blood undiluted, everybody would test positive. Is that not strange? Her diagnosis was not due to her condition but due to her test results. She did not have a bad diet or live hard, not at all. I have ver heard of mycoplasma incognitus, but her immune system is definatly on the mend after many years of doctor prescribed drug abuse.

  48. For over 20 years now, my life has been turned upside down because of lies, intimidation, fear, politics and governmental/pharma interests. It started when I was called into the doctor’s office at the hospital and was given the HIV+ label by my then doctor who had ordered a routine blood sample of mine to be tested. This happened at the Hospital Hemophilia clinic while in my late teens with my parents present. I was completely asymptomatic then, completely healthy in every way but in effect from that time onwards until today I was told that I would be very sick, would need to take drugs and was the carrier of an infectious disease. The whole HIV=AIDS=Death Dogma was in effect a self fulfilling prophecy for most hemophiliacs at that time. Most would invariably test positive for antibodies on the non specific test and were told that they would be at risk for death. Of course, hemophiliacs like myself were never told that the test itself is neither specific, standardized or approved for dianostic purposes. I was never told that hemophilia itself and the administration (injection) of clotting proteins for my illness was one of over 70 conditions which can cross react with the test kit proteins themselves to cause a false positive reaction on the test. Moreover, I wasn’t presented with with any proof whatsoever that a purported retrovirus called HIV?! was the cause of AIDS or that my antibody response was an indication of infection.

    On behalf of my fellow hemophiliacs and all those harmed by the HIV=AIDS=Death Dogma I demand the full restoration of truth, reconciliation, compensation and reparations be restored back to our lives. Our stories need to be told and our voices must be heard. Now. When I think back to the mid 80s and early 90s when the fears of an epidemic were heightened, I realize that there was no examination of evidence or correction when the theory failed to fit facts and reality. All we got was fear campaigns, and more testing and treatments with toxic drugs. In fact, up to the time of the AIDS era the mortality rate of hemophiliacs that had died over the years was fairly predictable and life expectancy had dramatically improved with the higher quality of clotting treatments that had become more readily available. However, the massive sudden increase in deaths can be directly correlated with the use of AZT and other toxic drugs soon prescribed on a prophylactic basis. This is the absolute truth that has been covered up for so many years. i strongly believe that the record and documenatation of the deaths of so many hemophiliacs should be exposed in a court of law that really seeks to set the record straight. In my view the drug deaths of my peers is tantamount to murder.

    The truth with regards to the events of those years has indeed become much clearer and can easily be verified. Virtually all hemophiliacs on heavy drug regimens were killed off quickly. Most of them were asymptomatic at the time the AIDS treatment regimens were imposed on them. A few lucky survivors regained health when the drug regimens they were on was significantly reduced or ended. The very lucky ones like me who refused the drugs from day one have remained 100% healthy to this day. Yet all this evidence has been ignored and I still see that patients are being poisoned at the hospital to this day 2008! If there is any lesson I have learned over the years is that if we don’t fully unite together to fight the oppressors of the HIV/AIDS orthodoxy and their monetary interests they will continue without conscience as their crimes become ever more heinous in scope and magnitude on human life. Consider for instance how the definition of AIDS has changed numerous times when predictions of doom and so called infectious epidemics never materialized. We have an incubation period that once started out between 2-5 years when AZT monotherapy was prescribed that now stretches up to 30 years and beyond. A myriad number of diseases have been added to the mix like cervical cancer which are not even immune related. Furthermore, the usage of wholly inaccurate methodologies like the unspecific antibody itself, T cell counting and viral load tests have been proven to be false, misleading and I would say outright criminal in their application on healthy asymptomatic people. It should be noted too that the number one cause of deaths of HIV+’s today is liver and/or kidney failure which is definitively a direct result of drug toxicity and cannot be attributed to any hypothetical virus.

    On a personal level, I have had to live with the constant pressure to take the highly toxic HIV medications by my doctors and nurses for many years. My decision to take charge of my situation and refuse the toxic medications from the beginning indeed saved my life. While I feel fortunate to be alive when so many HIV positives died needlessly on the meds, it has saddened me greatly that the overall arrogance of the medical community has prevented correction of the current terrible state of affairs. To be told time and time again that you are “sick” and at “grave risk for impending death” for so many years, I believe is extremely psychologically damaging. A complete never ending nightmare! I have had many suicidal thoughts over the years. A few HIV positive friends of mine have admitted to me that they have come painfully close to the act of suicide itself. Because of the intense social isolation, psychological pressure, stigmatization and sense of utter hopelessness (that comes with the diagnosis), it is not surprising that suicide is the second leading cause of death of HIV positives.

    It must be pointed out that being HIV positive is analogous to being the societal equivalent of being a “social leper”. The judicial system and media have portrayed us as spreaders of disease, killers, murderers, and purveyors of death, etc. The truth of the matter that there is NO scientific proof that HIV causes AIDS or is sexually transmitted is conveniently ignored. The famous Padian study meticulously documented irrefuteable data showing no seroconversions occurring among hundreds of discordant couples having unprotected sex for upwards of ten years. All the predictions by the AIDS orthodoxy of mass epidemics afflicting the earth killing millions never materialized. Dr. De Cock of UN AIDS’ confirmation that the prior predictions of mass epidemics in the 80s was false was an admission of a failed theory, a sinking ship as it were sturggling to stay afloat against the changing tides. Moreover, Dr. De Cock confirmed that the theory had “0” predictive value and that statistics had been fraudulently manipulated in conjunction with propaganda “fear campaigns” to benefit mass pharma profiteering and genocidal drug campaigns worldwide.

    The irrational policies of the AIDS orthodoxy have led to the wrongful conviction and imprisonment of innocent people for having consensual sex. It has destroyed lives, families and relationships. I have been terrorized by the institutional violence wrought by these policy makers. I have felt much sadness and frustration to read about HIV postives being flashed in the newspapers, paraded in the courts and treated like grotesque circus freaks. The apparent failure of the judicial system to properly examine and reject the fraudulent non science of the HIV theory will in my view undoubtedly geatly stain their collective reputations for many years in the future. In my view, their approval of the status quo represents tacit complicity and support of the real criminal murderers protected in the AIDS orthodoxy. The failure of the courts to allow debate and answer basic questions only adds to the growing stench of the ongoing coverup. Why have AIDS researchers refused to debate dissident scientists for 20 years? Why have the AIDS corporate nterests been able to evade the serious charges of fraud and scientific misconduct levelled at them by sincere oourageous scientists bearing no conflicts of interest? Who are the real “Denialists”? Why have AIDS doctors, pharma reps, governmental officials, etc. not yet answered for the deaths, disfigurement, stigmatization and terror imposed on HIV postives for decades? It seems clear now that the impending loss of power, money, prestige and public credibility is at the root of keeping the fraud alive in the face of so much evidence and opposition continually raised against it.

    It is my view that the disgraceful treatment of latter day ‘lepers’ (now euphemistically called “HIV Positives”) dragged into the courts to be mocked, prodded and jailed will not be easily forgotten. History will look back very harshly on the barbarism and betrayal by trusted institutions and the government on innocents.

    Now in my late 30s I face the future with a great deal of hope that better days lie ahead for myself and all those oppressed by the rules imposed on us by all those profitting from the HIV=AIDS=DEATH dogma. Collectively we must seize this movement and demand our freedom and compensation for the many crimes that have been perpetrated against us all. Personally I have been stigmatized and lived with much discrimination 24/7 because of the lies and the rules that have been associated with them over the years. The emotional toll of being “branded” so to speak has been an enormous imposition to me, affecting virtually every aspect of my day to day life. Virtually all my relationships have been short lived and I could not continue with some of my career plans as I had originally envisioned back in my 20s.

    When I consider the billions of dollars of profits pharma and governmental interests have made criminally on the lives of innocents without any correction, re-examination or apology, etc. for all these years it makes me feel very sick inside. If justice can be found in court, then they should have to give back their profits to the victims. I call out to all to fight the tyranny which has damaged our lives until our freedom is finally fully restored.

  49. David,
    If this ever comes out, I know you will be instrumental in it. I could just see you speaking to our government leaders in an investigation on all of this someday. A person cannot read your post without realizing that you can’t make this stuff up.

    Tyson,
    This is the guy you should be asking questions of. He has lived it and has obviously has studied this for a very long time.

    Joe

  50. Here is the latest rediculous article in the world of aids.

    http://online-pharmacy-news.clearblogsworld.com/breast-milk-purged-of-hiv-virus/

    Breast milk purged of HIV virus

    A simple nipple shield that prevents HIV transmission from a breast-feeding mother to her child has been devised by a Cambridge University engineer.

    Stephen Gerrard, a chemical engineer, has helped devise the shield that can disinfect milk as it leaves the breast.

    The device uses a detergent used by biochemists to denature proteins for analysis.

    A layer of cotton-wool soaked in the chemical is added to a conventional shield and this deactivates the virus.

    The layer deals with the virus without having to go through heat treatment which is the normal treatment to deactivate the HIV virus.

    The International Design Development Summit (IDDS) in the United States brought together engineers and field workers to work on research projects aimed at developing prototype designs.

    Non-toxic solution

    Mr Gerrard, together with a team of five others, was assigned the task of creating a practical design for heating breast milk to deactivate the virus.

    “We quickly established this may be too lengthy a process for many women in developing countries so they might not have the time for it,” he said.

    “Research has shown that copper and copper compounds can work but another approach, carried out by a group at Drexel University seemed more promising.

    “Their research has focused on sodium dodecyl sulphate (SDS), which can kill the HIV virus quickly and in fairly non-toxic concentrations.”

    Their project could also have benefits beyond prevention of HIV.

    “We were concerned that using our nipple shield could be stigmatizing, since it would identify a mother as HIV infected,” said Mr Gerrard.

    “We’re considering marketing it as a way to deliver medicines or micronutrient supplements to aid breast feeding. For example, they can also be used for iron or iodine deficiency.”

  51. Hi. That you said very precisely. Raised some interesting questions for which there is no answer. The author wrote very well.

  52. David,

    First of, I am completely in agreement with you that the stigmatization of HIV positive folks is an outrage. I would certainly stand-up against that sort of vilification and discrimination. Just to be clear, you are HIV positive now, for… 10-15 years? And you have not developed AIDS-like symptoms?

  53. Tyson.
    And just to be clear, I was labeled as hiv positive when I was 19. I am now 39.

    You ask if I have ever had aids like symptoms. Tyson, what exactly are AIDS-like symptoms? Could you define that, because scientists and doctors are not yet able to agree on what the symptoms of aids are. Kaposis sarcoma and PCP pneumonia have always been restricted to gays doing drugs, and have never been a factor for hemophiliacs.

    Do you mean fatigue? weight loss? diarhea? fever? loss of appetite? sick to my stomach? Severe flu? Maybe even pneumonia? Does stubbing a toe a couple times or not remembering someones name count as the onset of aids dementia?

    Do you suppose many of these so called “aids symptoms” that are bantered about by doctors in hemophilia clinics could just as easily come about simply through the continual intense stress and depths of depression usually suffered by those being labeled with a death sentence of being hiv positive?

    Tyson, have you ever had any of these AIDS-like symptoms?

    I, and many thousands of what are called “long term nonprogressors, who by the way never took the aids drugs and do not abuse illicit drugs, have never had any AIDS-like symptoms.

    As far as your outrage. I think you have it completely wrong. Your feigned outrage is misguided or you would aim it at your own self.

    My post was not about the outrage against stigmatizing or vilifying people who are designated as hiv positive. My outrage is directed to any and all, including toward you for further propagating this unproven so called science.

    My outrage is directed toward those in government, science, and medicine as they continue stigmatizing anyone anywhere by diagnosing anyone in the first place as being hiv positive based on antibody tests that do not find hiv, but find antibody proteins that have even been long disproven to be exclusive to any such retrovirus.

    It is the result of this wrongful diagnosis itself and it is the result of furthering the belief that such an invisible contagious sexual killer virus exists in those diagnosed as hiv positive that results in peoples ignorant and understandably fear based reactions.

    My further outrage is that there is no conclusive evidence that hiv was ever isolated and purified to separate it from other cellular debris, let alone proven to cause immune system failure.

    Hiv positive diagnosis is therefore an unproven allegation and is in itself the stigmatizing label that is given to people who test positive on tests that are based on finding nonspecific antibody proteins that were at one time believed to be exclusive to hiv.

    And my yet further outrage is that there is no published scientific evidence to be found in the so called “mountain of evidence” that presents with any reasonable, let alone high, degree of probability that the supposed retrovirus is the actual cause of anyone’s immune system failure. It is fully acknowledged by scientists today that the supposed hiv retrovirus does not in any way shape or form kill any T cells, as was claimed for many years.

    In fact, the claim, originally declared by Robert Gallo, and then carried on for years by thousands of scientists, that hiv supposedly killed T cells was the very bedrock and foundation of the belief that hiv was the virus that caused the multitude of conditions commonly called aids.

    Hiv is the only supposed human pathogen that requires electron microscopes with hundreds of thousands of times of magnification to even see it. At that level of magnification, just how is it that they would even know what they are looking at? And even when they have claimed EM photos of it, it has not ever been seen in any purified form to verify that what they believed they were looking at was actually hiv, let alone that it caused any disease.

    Here are the words of an expert in Electron Microscopy, Etienne de Harven M.D. who was Emeritus Professor of Pathology, University of Toronto. He worked in electron microscopy primarily on the ultrastructure of retroviruses throughout his professional career of 25 years at the Sloan Kettering Institute in New York, and 13 years at the University of Toronto:

    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index/edharven.htm

  54. Though some of EM expert Dr. De Harvens pieces are a bit technical to read, as he explains why hiv has not ever been photographed, this one fairly sums up his educated viewpoint:

    What happened after 1981 is so well known to all the readers of RethinkingAids that I hesitate to elaborate any further. The events which have lead to today’s crisis have been reviewed and analyzed most convincingly by Peter Duesberg. I must say that I read Duesberg’s book with great attention but basically with no surprise, because the way research had been conducted on retroviruses in the 1970s had so dangerously set the stage for “Impure Science”.

    Soon after the first cases of “Gay related immune deficiency” were described by Michael Gottlieb it was obvious for all observers that Gallo and his associates were going to jump on the new syndrome as a Godsent opportunity to attempt to justify the lavish federal budgets they had consumed on retroviruses over the past 10 years. In 1980, the scientific community was getting more and more concerned about the absence of results in “The War against Cancer” based on retrovirus hunting. The minor episode of HTLV 1 debacle was not enough, by far, to calm the fears of grossly misdirected federal research funds. The fact that the syndrome, soon tactically renamed “AIDS”, had nothing to do with cancer was apparently of little embarrassment for Gallo. Frequent association with Kaposi sarcoma helped to blur the difference in the eyes of the public.

    Dominated by the media, by special pressure groups and by the interests of several pharmaceutical companies, the AIDS establishment efforts to control the disease lost contact with open-minded, peer-reviewed medical science since the unproven HIV/AIDS hypothesis received 100% of the research funds while all other hypotheses were ignored. The general public and the medical community were made to believe that the presence of circulating antibodies is diagnostic of this disease, that Koch’s postulates were outdated, that 90% of all cases of an infectious disease can be observed in males, that viremia can be measured by PCR enhancement of RNA fragments even when viral particles are not demonstrable, etc., etc…

    Most conveniently, it was totally forgotten that heroin addicts were known for many decades to expose themselves to immuno- deficiencies, that nitrite inhalants have multiple toxic effects, that the extreme toxicity of AZT was known for over 20 years, that known retroviruses never have any cytolytic effects, etc., etc…

    And to ensure that the AIDS establishment could profitably continue to flourish, research on any dissenting (i.e. non-HIV) hypothesis was carefully prevented by tight control of research funding and by the extreme difficulty of publishing anywhere any dissenting views… In the late 1980s, I was considering adding to my research program in Toronto more EM observations on samples from AIDS patients. Unfortunately, by that time the media and the CDC had so perfectly orchestrated the panic of a plague-like epidemic that I was quickly made to understand that my assistants would all transfer out of the lab if I had insisted to activate such a program… The HIV seropositivity test was still at that time regarded as providing reliable diagnostic data. Since then, Papadopulos and the Australian team have demonstrated that this is very far from the truth.

    Since my retirement in France, I take any opportunity to speak out, as openly as I can, along the lines of this little note. I am proud to be part of the “Group for the Re-appraising of the HIV-AIDS hypothesis” and I sincerely hope that the combined activities of “The Group” will soon contribute to a complete re-appraisal of the etiology of AIDS for the best interest of patient’s care, and for a revival of scientific integrity in medical science!

  55. Hi to all! Well, after listening to my husband, Joe, tell me the bottom line of what’s being said here, I feel it’s now my time to chime in.

    First off, Richard Beltz, you are truly painful. Go have lunch with Wainberg.

    Tyson, I really appreciate you if you are sincerely seeking to find out truth. I don’t know if Joe clearly answered your questions about me. I’ll give you a run down, and feel free to ask anything at all that arouses your curiousity.

    I had two very difficult pregnancies/deliveries, 1992 and 1995. After my second child was born in ’95, I developed an infection in the c-section and spent a month in the hospital. (it was surely not hospital staph!) Appx 3 months later, I saw a number of doc’s, trying to figure out why I was not “bouncing back” to my old level of energy. They all tested me for EVERYTHING under the sun. Finally, one doc wanted to do an hiv test. I asked him if that’s what he thought it was, and he said “no, white middle class women don’t get aids”. The test came back positive. Side note: I have never used drugs, not been a prostitute, and had less than a handful of partners before I got married. (They are all negative)

    I worked as a paramedic in the late ’80’s and had one “stick” and some blood exposure then. Worked in surgery the following years, but no more exposures.
    That’s how I figured I “got it”.

    After the positive test, they sent me to an infectious disease doc. He did a t-cell and viral load. They were 29 and 58,000 respectively. That’s where I got an aids diagnosis. Even with no opportunistic infections. He told me to “get my affairs in order, I’d be lucky to have 6 months.”
    I was 29 yrs old, my children were 3 1/2 and 1. The whole family was tested. All tested negative. Yes,Joe, after 7 yrs of unprotected sex, tested negative. (I thought this was supposed to be a sexually transmitted disease???)

    Fast forward about a year. I become a speaker, all over the state, the “poster girl” if you will, for aids orthodoxy. None of you need to refer me to any of the orthodoxy sites. I can quote them by heart. I believed it, and bought it, hook, line and sinker. I now believe my downfall for never questioning ANYTHING was the fact that I worked in medicine. I had that training, brainwashing if you will. Doctors are god. Doctors know everythihg. The medical establishment is never wrong. Boy, they certainly don’t teach you logic or to be a free thinker in upper level education.

    Anyway, I took their drugs faithfully for 11 straight years, AZT and the rest of HAART. As the years went on, I looked worse, very anemic, my symptoms got worse, I could almost vomit on command, lived with CONSTANT headaches, and semi-regular migraines…..etc (the list is long)

    Fast forward April 2007: We found out there was much more information out there that had been withheld from us. I spent all of April, (I don’t work) doing reading, research, and my own due dilligence. (some of you should try it sometime)
    I’ve read hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence, and have a collection of 3-ring binders with pages printed out. I’ve read no less than 17 books written from the rethinker viewpoint. I’ve spoken with people from all over, who have lived this, and walked this path before me.

    I decided that in the end, the truth will always prevail.

    I quit all the meds in April 2007. Went through a very difficult detox period. By the fall, I was feeling good again.
    Now, one and a half years later, I have NO SIDE EFFECTS OR SYMPTOMS of any kind. I do not have, nor have I ever had, an opportunistic infection. I am now 42 yrs old. I was robbed of some of the best years of my life, but now I am well on the path to health, healing, and wholeness. I feel fantastic!! I live a very healthy lifestyle, and I can enjoy my children again. They have their mom back.

    My husband has been my rock through all of this. He is my biggest supporter and helper.

    I now communicate with people from all over the world, who find my story on the internet, and get to make an informed decision for themselves.

    Something I was denied.

    As to your question Tyson, ” will she ever go back on the drugs if she gets sick?” I’m not sure what you mean? If I get sick with something, like let’s say bronchitis, we will treat that like anyone else would treat bronchitis.

    By the way, I’ve had more help and healing from the alternative medical community than I even knew was possible.

    We have completely left organized medicine. I still believe they are only good about 5% of the time. Most specifically, emergency medicine.

    Tyson, I mean no disrespect to you or others, it’s just that I have lived this. I have spent way more time researching this subject than most people you will ever meet.
    I don’t really give a rat’s ass who believes this or not. I don’t mind their personal attacks or being called a denialist.
    I am alive, I’m healthy, and I am on a mission to help other people get access to evidence and truth. Something we all should have the opportunity to do before making any sort of informed decision.

    Many blessings to you, my friend, on your journey. I pray that your eyes will be opened and logic will prevail.

    Karri
    http://www.myspace.com/rethinkaids

  56. Tyson,
    I can’t believe nobody posted this link. My wife asked me to post it for you.
    Here is the list of 2621 hiv=aids doubters.
    This is not just a list hiv dissidents, This is a list of highly credentialed people, mainly doctors and scientists.
    http://www.rethinkingaids.com/quotes/rethinkers.htm

  57. Karri and Joe (and David),

    Thanks again for sharing your stories, and I’m happy you are feeling healthy and strong! I’ll be keeping my eyes out for more information on all of this…

  58. Tyson,
    When you start a thread like this, you are going to get people like myself, Bob, Michael, David and my wife. The one thing we all have on our side is the truth about AIDS. Everyone of us has has done our homework. I’m guessing thats why we never heard anything else from Richard Beltz or Roger. I don’t say that in a bragging way.

    You cannot poke holes in the drug/malnutrician AIDS view like you can with the virus AIDS view. When you find out that Gallo circumvented peer review and used political correctness to further his view, and the problems with the tests and drugs, you quickly come to a realization that you have believed a lie for over 20 years.

    Don’t look for cnn or Fox to run a story on this next week. They won’t , probably ever.

    I would love to see these leaders on the AIDS industry literally take doses of their own medicine. They would slowly get sicker and it would look like AIDS. The drugs never helped Karri. They did not kill her but they were killing her slowly.

    If I thought it would help teach people the truth of AIDS, I would inject myself with my wifes blood in a public forum. I don’t think that would help, Although I would be willing to do it if I thought it would.

    Tyson,
    I wish you well in your quest to figure this out. Drop us a line someday if you have any questions or want to tell us how wrong you think we are.
    Take care,
    Joe

  59. […] was raised on several occasions in last weeks’ HIV/AIDS posts here and here, and this article at Wired (Artist Builds Temple of Science) makes the “science as […]

  60. AIDS: are we being deceived?
    By Christian Fiala, MD, PhD
    It took two decades, but finally we are being told the truth: most of what AIDS experts and the media have led us to believe is wrong. A bitter deception, but better now than never.

    First, UNAIDS admitted last December that it had overestimated the worldwide total number of people infected with HIV by a staggering 7 million, out of an estimated 40 million. This is a remarkable admission, coming after years of using inflated numbers in its highly successful campaign for more funding.

    But the true overestimate is more than twice as high at 15 million, according to Dr. James Chin, the person formerly responsible for these very data at UNAIDS.

    Dr. Chin has shared some of his inside knowledge in a new book with the telling title: The AIDS Pandemic: The Collision of Epidemiology with Political Correctness. In it he reveals that an AIDS epidemic was never expected in Europe or North America. He also explains how the inflated figures were used to scare the population and to argue for higher budgets.

    The next revelation was an article in the well-respected British Medical Journal in May: ‘The writing is on the wall for UNAIDS’. Author Roger England explains: “It is no longer heresy to point out that far too much is spent on HIV relative to other needs and that this is damaging health systems’. Based on data and arguments, he recommends that ‚UNAIDS should be closed down rapidly because its mandate is wrong and harmful”.

    Finally in June, the head of the WHO’s department of HIV/AIDS, Dr. Kevin de Cock, officially admitted that HIV outside sub-Saharan Africa was confined to high-risk groups.

    ‘Everyone is at risk’

    These admissions of obvious facts come late. Many people realised long ago that HIV/AIDS is not a threat to the heterosexual population in Europe or North America. In contrast to the numerous campaigns during the last two decades, intended to make us believe that ‘everyone is at risk’. And those familiar with the data know there was never any reason to believe an epidemic would occur: In short: “for over twenty years, the general public has been greatly misled and ill-informed”, explains Rebecca Culshaw, a scientist who has been working on mathematical models of HIV infection.

    Now that the AIDS frenzy of an epidemic in the general population is finally over, it’s just a question of time until public and private donors translate these facts into a reallocation of their budgets.

    Population growth in Africa

    But what about Africa? Most people still believe what we’ve been told: A terrible HIV/AIDS epidemic is ravaging poor countries, mainly due to the heterosexual spread of HIV – which oddly enough is not occurring in Europe or North America. This discrepancy is just one of many contradictions in widely-held beliefs about AIDS. Another is the continuously high or even increasing population growth rate in countries said to be ‘hit’ by a deadly HIV/AIDS epidemic. The best example is Uganda. This country was once hailed as the ‘epicentre of a worldwide epidemic’. The journal Newsweek wrote back in 1986: “Nowhere is the disease more rampant than in the Rakai region of south-west Uganda, where 30 percent of the people are estimated to be seropositive.” In 1995, the World Health Organisation confirmed that “by mid-1991 an estimated 1.5 million Ugandans, or about 9 percent of the general population and 20 percent of the sexually active population, had HIV infection”. Subsequently, estimates of the number of HIV-positive Ugandans increased even further, to 15 percent of the total population. Most were expected to die prematurely with disastrous consequences for their families and the country.

    So it comes as a shock to look at Uganda today and find no trace of the predicted premature death of millions of people. Instead, Uganda is a country struggling with dramatic population growth. It has always had a very high growth rate, but for the last 15 years, it’s been among the fastest growing countries in the world. Mortality has remained constant or even declined, while fertility rates have remained high and stable.

    In other words, instead of the announced deadly epidemic of historic proportions we find an explosive annual population growth rate of 3.4 percent, which means the country is doubling its population in 21 years.

    Obviously, this is paradoxical. But the contradiction between a predicted deadly epidemic and a dramatic population increase can easily be explained: most people who were HIV positive 15 years ago did not die prematurely as expected, but continued to live a normal life.

    Therefore, the basic assumption in the HIV/AIDS paradigm – that a positive HIV test leads to AIDS and certain premature death – is wrong, as proven by the example of Uganda.

    More: http://www.nrc.nl/international/Opinion/article1984104.ece

    Presentation: Update on Uganda: An analysis of the predictions and assumptions about the former epicenter of the AIDS epidemic – Implications for other African countries

    http://www.altheal.org/statistics/fiala.htm

  61. But didn’t Fiala just suck it all out of his thumb? Have a look: http://letterstotheempire.com/2008/09/29/where-christian-fiala-got-his-data/


  62. Are you HIV+ like me and know it’s real?

    Come chat @ http://www.AIDSchat.org to meet HIV positive people for sharing and support.

  63. THE CURE for HIV/AIDS…….AMBUSH

    THE IDEA that AMBUSH cures AIDS
    is being proven by the more than 400 individuals who have taken a dose of 60 ml three times daily for 21 days. The result is that AMBUSH ‘KILLS’ the virus by causing the protein envelope to rupture and the viral particles are discarded by the white blood cells. AMBUSH is able to ‘KILL’ the virus that are ‘hiding’ in the lymph system by its ‘natural radioactive’ properties. This process allows the body to ‘return to normal health’ with a corresponding immunity to that or those strains of the virus.

    What is AMBUSH ?
    AMBUSH is a radioactive isotope of uranium that is found in the ‘palm’ plant of which there are more than 3000 species. When ingested, AMBUSH causes the body temperature in the trunk area to rise to about 102 degrees when the individual is sleeping. The preparation takes four hours per batch, which is then given to the individuals for consumption 60 ml three times daily for 21 days. AMBUSH is a herbal preparation in this form but it contains an active ingredient which is a ‘NEW’ crystalline substance, a drug from the ‘palm plant’ similarly to ASPIRIN originating from the willow tree bark

    RESULTS:
    After 21 days on AMBUSH, ALL the individuals experienced a decrease in viral load to undetectable, an increase in cd4, increase in RBC, an improvement in general health such as more color to the face, decrease in Buffalo hump, an increase in gluteal muscles, a decrease to having no joint pains whereby individuals can bend to touch their toes, and walk up steps are but a few examples. There is also a dramatic increase in their sexual appetite beginning after the first week of therapy

    DISCUSSION:
    In any plant concoction such as percolated ‘tea’, there are 30-40,000 compounds, whi ch would take the scientific community twenty years to isolate one particular ingredient if they knew what they were looking for. The LORD GOD has given me seven steps to isolate the active ingredient, which is soft and metallic in nature and has a carbon- uranium-sulfur-(classified)-phentolamine configuration or structure. This is similar to Federick Kekule and the discovery of the benzene ring where he dreamt the structure.

    As an antiviral and ‘natural radioactivity’ producing agent, AMBUSH is also effective against leukemia, lupus and HPV. Here I am saying that I have ‘GIVEN’ AMBUSH in the same ‘strength’ and dosage to patients with leukemia, lupus and HPV. A 35 year old male with HIV found it difficult to impossible to urinate was put on ‘green tea’ and water while the doctors contemplated prostrate surgery. One of the doctors gave him my number , I sent him a supply of AMBUSH an d he has not been given any more ARV’s, since taking AMBUSH 18 months ago, is in ‘good’ health and has expressed a willingness to be examined by HIV investigators like many others who have taken AMBUSH.

    I have sent this ‘IDEA’ to most HIV research agencies, scientist of the field, universities, hospitals, clinics, politicians and news agencies to which it is REJECTED because the name of THE LORD GOD is mentioned. He has steered me scientifically through the processes such as which plant and how to produce the active ingredient. What are the odds of a Florida Pharmacist picking a plant would contain the CURE for HIV/AIDS ?
    I have never charged any of the people for their supply of AMBUSH but a life saving has been spent on the project with NO renumeration from any sources because AMBUSH falls outside the walls of modern medicine and research.

    PROPOSAL:

    My proposal is that I PROVE that AMBUSH CURES HIV/AIDS by giving it to a number of END-STAGE or DRUG-RESISTANT people and the scientific community watches their recovery. This proposal addresses the problem in that I have already outlaid the results to be obtained.

    This IDEA is unconventional in that the scientific community has rejected AMBUSH because I say it is GOD given. Secondly if I wrote it according to certain standards, then it might be peer reviewed. However, THE LORD GOD has also shown me that there are five enzyme systems associated with the virus, reverse transcriptase, protease, fusion and two more of which causes the virus to be AIRBOURNE. This means that without DIVINE intervention mankind and ALL warm- blooded mammals will be extinct in a number of years.

    The PROOF of what I am saying is found in scientific papers wherein it is found that when the protease cuts the viral strands, it cuts it at DIFFERENT lengths EVERY time, to which it should always be a valine at the end but is a different amino acid every time. This is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce a VACCINE.

    Since this is NOT a hypothesis but there are about 400 individuals who have taken AMBUSH, here lies a vast area in which to check, recheck and confirm that AMBUSH CURES AIDS. Let it be mentioned that during the HIV reproductive cycle, reverse transcriptase converts viral RNA into DNA compatible to human genetic materials. Thus the human DNA has been ‘hijacked’ and since each person has a DIFFERENT DNA, then the new viral copy is unique to that person which shows that each individual has a DIFFERENT STRAIN of the virus. Consider two HIV positive people swapping viral strains and increasing its complexity with multiple partners.
    It can also be proposed that they be revisited as proof that the strain or strains that they had were ‘killed’ at the time of taking AMBUSH considering that a person can catch as many different strains as there are people who are infected by HIV.
    I am also willing to work with the scientific community in identifying those individuals who took AMBUSH and wish to be identified with this process notwithstanding that some are stigmatized while others are jubilant,

    Once AMBUSH is verified as being able to accomplish that which is aforementioned then the next stage might be the natural and artificial synthesis of the substance.

    Finally, if this is accepted or not, believed or not, THE LORD GOD always wins and this is the heavenly truth to which AMBUSH was divinely given to mankind for the CURE of HIV/AIDS and it will be here forever. Apostle Shada Mishe.

    apostleshadamishe@gmail.com

    Here is a video taped presentation that I gave at t he Martin Luther King library in Washington

  64. I actually clicked on this link because I read Richard Wilson’s name within the short description of this page while I was doing a google search. I see that you’ve already been “mauled by the crazies” as he says…🙂

    I found it interesting that Wilson wrote this:

    “Bogus scepticism does not centre on an impartial search for the truth, but on a no-holds-barred defence of a preconceived ideological position. The bogus sceptic is thus, in reality, a disguised dogmatist, made all the more dangerous for his success in appropriating the mantle of the unbiased and open-minded inquirer.”

    I discussed with him on his blog a little. He admitted that his research on the HIV/AIDS topic wasn’t really “complete” and that he had to make certain assumptions to finish his book. Take a look at our exchange if you’re interested:
    http://richardwilsonauthor.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/aids-denial-the-loch-ness-monster-connection/#comment-530

    And I think you can safely ignore Apostle Shada Mishe’s comment… I’ve read that message on other websites before.

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